In this episode of The Midgame Mindset, host Rich Bishop sits down with MarioKrivokapic — CEO, coach, revenue architect, podcaster and author — to unpack what it really takes to scale revenue teams and run cash-generating businesses. Mario’s story moves fast: from selling titanium-coated cookware in Europe to building sales teams that scaled companies from early ARR to nine figures, and now to buying and operating main‑street businesses as CIO of Madaka Investments. The conversation lands at the intersection of sales craft, culture, and long-term thinking — the true midgame of scaling growth organizations.
From hands‑on closers to hands‑on coaches
Mario’s foundation is old‑school sales discipline. “I got four companies from one to 10 million ARR and I got one company to a hundred million as a CRO,” he tells Rich. That track record was forged by relentless phone time and obsessive learning. He and a friend burned CDs full of leadership and sales audiobooks in the early days and stayed up until 2 a.m. applying what they learned. The lesson: skill is earned, not downloaded.
That labor shaped his leadership style. After a painful early promotion where his management style drove teammates away, Mario pivoted intentionally toward coaching. He became the kind of leader who rolls up his sleeves: listening to reps’ discovery calls, reviewing emails, and working deal‑by‑deal. “When I get an engagement… I would just work with whatever team,” he says. That hands‑on approach is central to how he develops teams and yields predictable revenue growth.
Build a learning organization, not just a sales org
A recurring theme in the episode is culture. Mario argues that revenue leaders too often treat people like numbers. He wants to create “a learning organization” where development is baked into how teams operate. That means coaching, team coaching, and individual coaching — not quarterly pipeline reviews from afar.
He also experimented with compensation design to enforce teamwork. Half the variable pay he structured as a team pool that the team allocates at year end. The result: social accountability. Peers reward those who help the team, not just the best quota‑achievers. As Mario explains, this exposes slackers and bullies fast. In one memorable moment he shared: “I fired him in front of everyone.” Harsh, yes — but the action rebalanced a team culture that was crushing the onboarding experience for new hires.
Sales craft over gimmicks: discovery calls and cold calling
Mario is blunt about modern shortcuts. He praises tools but warns that “having everything at your fingertips” can stunt learning. He still values cold calling and live call coaching. Even in his 40s he sat in on live cold‑call sessions to improve his team’s rebuttals and openers. That dedication feeds into his pragmatic playbook for discovery calls — a theme he expands on in his book Still Underrated: A Complete Guide to the Discovery Call.
Product demos that sell themselves
One of the most vivid stories in the episode is Mario’s demo strategy for a titanium cookware business. Instead of slides, they cooked a chicken breast in front of chefs. The physical demo proved product superiority in seven minutes and unlocked large orders. It’s a simple reminder: when you can show a live outcome, you remove the abstraction and accelerate buyer trust.
From sales leader to investor: buying boring businesses intentionally
Mario’s current pivot is equally pragmatic. He and partners now buy cash‑generating, “boring” businesses — think dry cleaners, building maintenance, or local wholesalers — with reliable EBITDA and succession risk. Their thesis came from an insight about retirements and sellers: “There are going to be 750,000 companies up for sale in Germany” and millions globally as owners age out.
They are not chasing hot tech. Instead, Mario explains, they hunt for predictable cashflow, fair multiples and businesses they can operate without disrupting the seller’s legacy. “If you don’t want us we won’t even change the name of the company,” he says, underscoring the human side of M&A. That approach often eases negotiations and preserves the social fabric of the business.
Principles for scaling revenue and people
Several actionable principles emerge from the conversation:
- Coach in public and in private: Team coaching plus individual coaching scales skills faster than metrics‑only reviews.
- Bake teamwork into comp: Structuring part of variable pay as a team pool creates peer accountability and sustained culture.
- Hire for empathy and velocity: Top performers who bully others cost more than they contribute. Protect onboarding and psychological safety.
- Practice craft relentlessly: Cold calling, live call coaching and discovery mastery are durable skills. Tools can accelerate, but not replace, craft.
- Buy the boring businesses: When markets overheat, edge is often found by stepping away from the crowd and valuing legacy and cashflow.
Powerful quotes from the episode
“I fired him in front of everyone.” — Mario Krivokapic (on removing toxic performers to protect team health)
Why this episode matters for growth leaders
Midgame growth is where strategies either compound or collapse. Mario’s mix of executional rigor, coaching discipline, compensation design and pragmatic capital deployment offers a blueprint for leaders who need results now — and resilience later. Whether you lead a scaled sales organization or a growing portfolio of small businesses, his argument is the same: invest in people, protect culture, and run the math conservatively.
Watch the episode
See Mario and Rich unpack these ideas in full:
More About Mario Krivokapic:
– https://www.linkedin.com/in/mario-krivokapic/
– 2 And A Half Salesmen Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@2halfsalesman
– “Still Underrated! A Complete Guide To The Discovery Call” Book on Amazon: https://a.co/d/1BZyYzO
If you lead revenue, people, or a small business portfolio, this episode will give you concrete moves you can make this quarter. Tune in to learn when to roll up your sleeves, when to coach, and when to buy the steady business that pays the bills and preserves a legacy.
Episode Transcript
0:00And I did my absolute best to destroy that company which I did very effectively annihilate like every
0:06salesperson left because I was a jerk and an It was a really painful experience because I had to look really
0:11really deep to my soul like what the hell did I do wrong? So it was very
0:18intentional after that. Welcome to the Midgame mindset. Join us as we dive into the pivotal moments that
0:24shape today’s top sales and marketing leaders, RevOps innovators and entrepreneurs. This is where grit meets
0:30growth and the game changes for good. If you find value in this conversation, be
0:36sure to share it with another growth leader who would enjoy it. And now, let’s get to the show. Welcome to the
0:42Midgame Mindset. I’m your host, Rich Bishop, and today’s guest is Mario
0:48Kokapich. And I know I Americanized that name, but all right, we’re getting the thumbs up.
0:53We’re good there. Uh Mario is a CEO, coach, and revenue architect. He’s the
0:59co-host of two podcasts, one called Two and a Half Salesman and the other one
1:04called Game of Funs. Uh he’s also the author of the book Still Underrated, the
1:11complete guide to the discovery call. And he is the CIO of Madaka Investments.
1:17Mario, thank you for joining us. Hello. Hello. Good to be here.
Guest Introduction: Mario Krivokapic, CEO, Coach, and Revenue Architect
1:22Good of you to invite me since we had you on our podcast uh last week.
1:29Yeah, we had we had a lot of fun recording that really diving into uh private equity and and some of the
1:35ins and outs there. And I I’d love to get into your your story, your
1:41background, because I think the audience would really appreciate some of the the nuances that that you work with today.
1:47Um but I hit a couple of the highlights. I’d love to hear a little bit more about you. Yeah. Uh well my my story begins in what
Mario’s Story: From Yugoslavia to the US and Scaling Companies
1:55probably your listeners maybe the little bit older ones know as former Yugoslavia. So when I when I was very
2:04young and I’m quite old as per my gray hair uh not that old uh no I I grew up
2:12in in former Yugoslavia then you know whatever happened in the 90s was you know war and and all of that you know
2:18lasted for se several years and then beginning of 2000 in my 2000s in my
2:24early 20s uh a good buddy of mine ran a um like um um like exchange program like
2:32uh work and travel to the United States. So I spent like three years in US mainly
2:38near Houston area. If any Houston listeners, I spent a lovely year in Leed
2:44City uh in this the very suburbs of Houston
2:50and then two two years in uh San Jose. So then I you know after that I I came
2:56back uh came back to came back to Serbia. I lived in Berlin for a while
3:01then came back and then now now residing in in Berlin. That’s kind of my my
3:07living living history I would say. Yeah. A little bit.
3:13And then as for as for worked work work I I’ve been in sales my entire life, right? So mainly as as an executive for
3:20the past I don’t know 17 18 years. Um I I got four companies from one to 10
3:26million ARR and I got one company to 100 million as as a CRO. But you know
3:31whenever I ran teams I I always loved developing people. So I I just got into
3:38every possible coaching program that I you know I I I could find just to be a
3:45better coach to to develop better better people, better leaders, better managers.
3:51So I have all of the NLP and PCM and the arts and science of coaching and last
3:56year I worked one year with Professor Robert Harrow. So uh you know there’s a lot of these things.
4:03That’s fantastic. And now you’re based in Berlin you said right? Yes. Congrats. Excellent. And I and I’d love to hear a
The $100 Million ARR Company: Selling High-End Titanium Cookware
4:10little bit more about I mean to take a company from 2 million to 10 is is a big
4:17deal, right? That’s a big jump. I would love to hear kind of what your experiences were that maybe you had in
4:23common with some of those companies that you got up to 10 and then what was different between the one that you took
4:28from beyond that up to 100 million. Was there something really special or different about what was done there?
4:35Well, the so the company that I took to 10 was um
4:43sorry to to 100. It I would say it was a very unique set of circumstances. I
4:49would say a little bit more luck than that than I was actually good.
4:54But I I don’t I don’t complain. I have it on my resume. It’s we we basically
5:00sold high-end. I don’t want to say it’s not they’re not kitchen appliances by like pots, pans,
5:07and stuff for kitchen. We sold it into restaurants and hotels, but it was kind
5:13of a special coating made out of titanium where you know what what
5:19restaurants and hotels spends like a fortune per year on new pots and pans. And you know the deal with Teflon, if
5:26you scratch a little bit, it becomes poisonous and then you have to throw it away, right? So instead of just using like a $30 $40
5:34pan, we sold it for like a huge price, the titanium ones. And what we would do,
5:40we would get in, I would kind of cook just like basic like like chicken
5:45breasts, right? But I would use a fork and then I would do this and it would
5:51nothing like nothing like you cannot damage because you know titanium.
5:57So, I I I just had like a I had a really good price from the manufacturer and I I
6:06had a um three excellent distributors and I had like one hell of a sales
6:11force. Nice. So, that was kind of the the the you know, we we
6:17never did any marketing like I didn’t have a marketing department. The only thing that I had was just someone
6:23creating collateral for salespeople to use. I just had people scheduling meetings,
6:28uh, guys traveling, and we did this all in south, southern and eastern Europe.
6:35Like that’s it. Like we never went anywhere from from there. Okay. So, excellent product. You found a
6:42strong product market fit. you felt. No, it it it was it it it was it was
6:47crazy because we would come in and I would talk to the chef and then I would
6:54I would get people from you know either procurement or whoever we we made uh you
6:59know we talked to and then just say hey let let us just show you it’s like 10 15
7:06minutes just cook the chicken breast which takes 7 and 1/2 minutes to cook
7:11season it a little bit we didn’t use even oil or just tiny bit of olive oil or stuff like that. And they did they
7:18were just like like my product demo was basically well my guys did that was basically cooking.
7:26That’s great. That was product demo and then it was just the matter of how much stuff do you
7:32want to order because I know for a fact a lot of these hotels and restaurants that are still operational still use
7:40even after 15 years. So, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Really strong product. You found the
7:46right way to get in front of the people and and demonstrate it. You talked about the team that you had.
7:54At what point did you join the company before that 100 million like where were they? Very very early on. Very early on. I I
Learning to Lead: Burning the Midnight Oil with Audiobooks on CDs
8:02was maybe salesperson two or three or four or something like that. Okay. Yeah. So very very but be even before
8:10that I I always say this, I did have leadership experience, which is all it was. I I I
8:18became a manager, well, a VP sales of a company that had maybe 12 or 14
8:24salespeople and I did my absolute best to destroy that company, which I did very effectively annihilate like every
8:31salesperson left because I was a jerk and an Uh, but I was a kid. I was in my mid20s.
8:38I didn’t know better. I didn’t have anyone to to to teach me. Which leads me
8:44to to a very interesting story right there. Like I I have a good buddy and he won’t be listening to this because his
8:51English is non-existent. Uh from from Serbia. So what we did when
8:58when him and I meet met would we would download
9:04um different audio books right about leadership about leading people about sales about all because you know there
9:11was none of it uh where where I was growing up like zero stuff and then what
9:17we would do is we would go we would take a computer we would we would burn it on
9:22a CD so CDs I I No, you remember so I don’t know about your audience. CDs were
9:28these round things that held information on it.
9:33So we would take a CD with like I don’t know hours and hours of audiobooks and we
9:39would go into the office and literally stayed up until every night 2 or 3:00
9:45a.m. just listening to it, taking notes and saying, “Okay, how do we apply to this? How do we apply it? How do we
9:50apply?” And we did that for months. And this is how we learn. This is how we learn to sell. And this is how we learn
9:57to lead people. Basically by just sitting burning the midnight oil and
10:03just staying up. We would order a big pizza. No, 50 cm. We got really fat at
The Modern Sales Challenge: Lack of Incentive to Learn in the Age of AI
10:10that point. But you got really smart at the same time, too.
10:15That was the tradeoff. I love it. Yeah. You know, it digging
10:21into that and really like having that hunger for learning and and growing is
10:28important. And were you a teen at this point? This was in your teens or early 20s. No, no, no, no. Early 20s. Early
10:34Early 20s. Yeah. Which is fantastic, right? Because now you’re late 20s. Mid mid mid 20s. Right.
10:40Yeah. So, you’re you’re trying to apply it. Yeah. But I’m telling you this story because I I’ve since led so many teams s
10:48right as a VP sales or CRO or even fractional and
10:54people like I always brag whatever that means and you and I talk that I read
11:00about 50 books every year right even still like from 2005 and 2006
11:07and everyone says like that’s that like that’s an achievement.
11:13Right? The people today don’t have the hunger for knowledge,
11:19don’t have the hunger to grow. And to make matters worse, and you and I can have an entire episode on this, is are
11:28the large language models that we’ve been so that we’ve been presented with,
11:34are they making young generations dumber because they they they now have every
11:40like do a SWAT analysis, plan me a meeting, write me a business plan, and
11:47all of those things, right? Yeah. So, but that’s I think another
11:52that’s another discussion we can have it for me like
11:59when I when I had a team this was when I was 40 so this was like preandemic
12:06pandemic right a little bit like my team struggled with cold calling so then I I
12:11just I I don’t know like I have maybe between 20 and 25,000 hours on on the phones right so Yeah,
12:19it’s a lot of hours. Not not even joking. And that’s not coaching. That’s actually picking up
12:25me me p pound p pound p pound p pound p pound p pound p pound p pound p pound p pounding pinging the phones. Wow. But I I I had a team that was really
12:32struggling with with call calling and I I didn’t know what to do because I was trying to coach them how I did it and
12:38then I began to struggle with them. You know, it’s it it just just it it was
12:43what it was. Then I found a like a Discord channel of these crazy maniacs
12:49that did live cold calling every Wednesday night.
12:54And then I would spend my Wednesdays from 10:00 in the evening to I don’t
13:00know 11 or 12 on Discord just listening to them, doing call calls, doing
13:06rebuttals, doing the openers, everything. Wow. Yeah, it’s still in my
13:1240s. And then I would take notes and I would take it to my team and they would kind of we would kind of work work work
13:18it through. I I would say that it’s not the the work habits, it’s not the
13:26discipline even maybe not the first for knowledge but today’s younger generation just kind
13:33of have everything at their fingertips. Mhm. So there is no
13:38no incentive to to to learn. Next year’s growth targets aren’t going
13:44to build themselves and guesswork isn’t a strategy. Midgame Consulting’s annual
13:50sales planning guide is built for CRO of high growth, high impact companies who
13:55want to use the latest frameworks and templates that build an integrated sales
14:00plan to start the new year off right. It’s free and available for download. Just go to salesplansuccess.com.
14:08That’s salesplansuccess.com. Yeah, that makes sense. It’s it’s easy
From Individual Contributor to Coach: An Intentional Transition
14:14to to go into chat GPT or whatever and and have that pull those pieces together. But there is a lot of value in
14:21understanding how to do those things without those tools because then those tools, yes,
14:27just make it easier, but but you know what a good output is and what isn’t when you’ve done it, right? Unless you
14:34actually do it, that output can be terrible and not get you anywhere. And
14:39you actually have to tweak it. You have to make it human, right? It has to work when you’re talking to somebody.
14:46Um, and I think you started to hit on this too. Everybody has their own, I
14:52think, way of presenting and way of being successful in a way that’s authentic to them. and to move from an
14:59individual contributor role where you’re hitting the phones all the time to now coaching a team. You you you kind of
15:06tiptoed into it a little bit, but I’d love to hear a little bit more about what that transition was like and how
15:11you made that move from what worked for you to helping your team with what
15:19worked for them. Well, it it happened very early on the aforementioned company that I destroyed.
15:26Um, I I I didn’t work with people, right? So, I was just this annoying ass
15:32manager just demanded results and basically not caring whether or not
15:38my people are successful. Um, didn’t have the support from the sea level.
15:43Didn’t have the support for admin. Um, so when I I quit and I joined another
15:50company, so this is end of my 20s. I decided then and there that I would take
15:56care of every single person because I kind of learned I I would say I learned my lesson.
16:02Well, I was lucky to learn that lesson very early on in in my career. You have to work with the people. You have to
16:09coach them. You have to take care of them. So that’s then every single team that I led I I also like I know a lot of
16:18managers and even you know in in a little bit smaller companies that you have where the VP sales has like you
16:25know 10 just 10 people he’s not the actual VP sales he’s more of a sales manager right
16:31um they do like pipeline reviews or career adjustments or whatever it is
16:38right well I never did those what I did instead that I I would do coaching
16:44with with my team. I would do team coaching and then I would do um
16:50individual ones, right? But this kind of this in did this kick early on with
16:57every engagement and even today when I get tapped either as a fractional right
17:03or as you you met me as a as a coach and a consultant um I I just get my hands
17:10dirty like I would when I get an engagement I I would just work with with
17:16whatever team like we would work on a very specific deals with them like Hey, show me emails.
17:25Send me the discovery call that you did and and so on and so on. Right. So, I I
17:31learned this lesson very early on. Yeah. It’s interesting because there are
17:36different types of sales leaders. Some of them are very handsoff and want to
17:43stay more on the strategic side of things and have a hard time rolling up their sleeves and getting into the
17:48details. And then there are others that really love getting into the details and and working with their reps on an
17:55individual basis, deal by deal, message by message, whatever it happens to be in
18:00order to to get things moved across. I’ve seen a lot of success with that ladder type of of sales rep. Was that
18:08something that you purposely set out to do early on or did that just kind of
18:14come natural in your transition from being an individual contributor to a a leader?
18:20No, that it was very intentional. Um I I just didn’t I I at that specific point
18:29but that that was a very painful experience for me get getting to be the best sales guy and then promoted to a
18:36like a V head of sales taking 12 13 people and then just everyone leaving
18:42and only two people stayed. Um, that was re like a painful awakening for me,
18:48right? It was a really painful experience because I had to look really really deep into into my soul like what
18:56the hell did I do wrong? Mhm. Right. Yeah. So, it it was very intentional after
19:02that. Yeah. the there are a lot of companies that will I think naturally take whoever
19:11the best sales person is and promote them to being a sales leader which is
19:20such a mistake in the field so many cases that may work in
19:26accounting or in other areas of the company where you take the best accountant and you make them the
19:32accounting manager you could probably get away with that. But when you’re talking about really the tip of the
19:37spear for the company, the sales team, the one that really drives who gets paid at the end of the day because they’re
19:43bringing in the revenue, right? The the margin for error is so small, yet so
19:50many companies try to make that move of the best rep to the manager. Um, it
19:57sounds like you wanted to be that manager. you did the self-reflection and the growing to become that. Have you
20:04seen that from companies and and what have you um No. What is your experience
20:10there? It’s it very rare to see a a manager slashdirector SLVP sales
20:17even CRO’s coaching their direct reports. It’s it’s mostly just they report to me.
20:25We talk a little bit about the strategy. Show me this, show me that. And and that’s it. Like I’ve seen
20:34maybe a handful of people doing that. But it’s such a vital part. It is. It’s
20:39such a vital part of the role. And we kind of forgotten that. We we’ve forgotten that if you’re a CRO and
20:47you’re leading and your team is client success, marketing and sales, then
20:52whoever reports to you, you are responsible not just for their performance but for their development.
21:00And that that’s how I approached it every single time, right? Because then those people will take that and work
21:06with their people and work with their people and work with their people and then you then you create an organization
21:13where everyone learns and everyone is developing everyone else and that’s a very beautiful place to work and when
21:21your guys or girls don’t say it I hate
21:27Mondays because I got to go to work then something is not quite Okay, I would
21:33say. Yeah, definitely. So, let’s let’s take that and go back to the building of the
21:39company up to 100 million. You started early salesperson number two, right? You you intentionally are growing
21:49this team and growing this company. Culture is going to be a major factor in
21:55the ability to get to that 100 million. I think you just touched a little bit on the type of culture that you were
22:01building, but could you maybe um explain a little bit more about the other aspects of the culture that you wanted
22:07to build with that team and how that Well, for me that that was definitely the number one thing, the the learning
22:13organization. I think I I don’t know if I read the there is a book called the learning organization. I don’t know if I
22:20read it during my tenure or I kind of stumbled uh across it a little bit
22:26later. But that’s what I wanted to do. I I always had a problem with
22:33let’s say compensation, right? Because we encourage teamwork, what we we call
22:39the role individual contributor and then that’s how we pay the reps. My reps were
22:46paid half and half. have team effort, half your um
The “Instant Noodles Economy”: Why Bad Managers and Top-Performing Assholes Destroy Teams
22:54individual individual performance. So I would say this is this is your part
23:00of your conversation that the other part is going to be you guys are going to split it between yourselves. So for
23:06example, if we hit a major goal and we I have 10 people, let’s say, and then at
23:12the end of the year we hit our goal, I would say, all right, we have 200,000 to split among the 10 of you. So you guys
23:21decide how do you want to split this and and that’s how we will we will do it and
23:26then they would sit and it is rich it’s fascinating how
23:32quickly the slackers people who don’t contribute and people who are
23:39leave this type of an organization because if you don’t contribute and and
23:44you’re an you will ask for like a fair share like you will asked for 20k for you. Let’s
23:52just take this example. Mhm. But then the team say, “But you came in last or second to last. You never helped
23:59anyone. Why would we give you anything?” Right? But then you have this kid who
24:06can’t close but he’s like, “Oh, he he’s missing the quota, right? But he’s
24:12working like 11 12 hours. He’s helping his teammates. He’s he’s doing all sorts
24:18of different differently the untangles to help the team succeed and he’s like
24:23burning in the corner and he missed his quota and I maybe I as a manager or if I’m the
24:33manager his manager right maybe I can’t see that but the team sees team sees
24:38everything so then they will say this guy gave his heart for the team to be successful
24:45Well, all right. You didn’t earn your individual uh cons,
24:52but as as far as the team goes, you you came in at 5 a.m. and left at 10
24:58p.m. Wow. That had to companies don’t do that. Companies never
25:04do that. No. I It’s It’s It’s a shame they don’t. when that makes a
25:11lot of sense though because you’re going to put it on the team to determine
25:17what’s best. I mean, I can’t imagine, you know, how heated some of those discussions went. But it when you’re
25:24playing the long game, that makes a lot of sense, right? When you’re building for a 100red million and you’re sitting
25:30there at five to start to implement that as your team is now growing,
25:35you’re going to end up in a good spot in the long run. Yeah. But I’ve got to imagine something
25:41like that would be really hard when today the average tenure of a CRO is
25:46about 18 months. So for sure
25:51in instant noodles economy. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. 12 to 18 months.
25:58It’s it frankly it’s too quick, right? People are moving around too quickly. But that then also creates this
26:04shortsighted view for hitting the numbers. And if if I’m only going to be
26:10distributing comp once or twice at the end of the year because my tenure is only 12 months or 18 months that then
26:17why would I go through that process if if that’s my intention, right? So I love
26:24the fact that you have the the long-term view here in that role. I would love to
26:29hear your thoughts of of how more companies can get to that point that they could have that kind of stance with
26:36their culture. It it is a it you are correct it’s it’s a very very much a cultural issue
26:43right um part of it is when you know you
26:48you have a legacy company that’s been around for 10 15 20 years and then the
26:55the biggest problem here you cannot do this if
27:03you as as a direct manager will these people not willing to develop all of
27:08them, right? Because what will happen is let’s say you have 10 reps, probably two
27:14of them are going to be like monster, right? Like they they but the rest won’t. So
27:22you need to take care of both your elite performers or I I I use the word
27:28champions. My first ever sales book was the art and science of sales
27:35or something like by Tom Hopkins. I think that’s the original like ancient
27:40ancient that was and he the elite performers he calls them champions. So I just kind of stuck with me. So whenever
27:46I see somebody you know this is a champion, right? So I just use that term. um
27:53you you need to take care of your champions, you need to develop them, but you also need to develop your team and
27:58make sure your team is successful. And then the your champions
28:04I I I actually in in one one of the subsequent companies, I I let go of a
28:10top performer because he was an That’s setting the tone. Well, he was
28:18number two out of uh 15, 16, something like that. He was
28:25number two. But whenever young reps would come in, why I always kind of had
28:31a program of, you know, shadow a little bit, then learn product, spend like a
28:36one month in client success or customer service just to learn everything. And then you go up and then you kind of have
28:43a mentor that that’s what kind of leads you. And and I I gave gave this guy a
28:49kid and and kid was like just big heart like he would leave leave everything.
28:56And this guy would berade him. He would like tease him. He would like do all sorts of different And I told him
29:01look you you can’t do this. You got to be a mentor. You got to be kind of like a fatherly figure. This guy’s he doesn’t
29:08know life. He’s like 24, 25 years old. Like what does he know? Oh
29:14But he continued to do that. And then but I I never learned this from the kid. I learned it from other teammates.
29:20And then and then I I did something I rarely did. I fired him in front of
29:26everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Brutal, man. Brutal. And I told
29:32him because of this this this this nuclear explosion. But the team and I
29:39and I got feedback from the team later was said, “Oh man, you were ruthless.” But this is exactly what the team needed
29:46because the the younger were beginning to be afraid of him. Oh yeah. Yep. Yeah. He was being a
29:54bully, right? He was bully. Yeah. You can’t have that. No. No. Especially with new new people
30:01coming in. Yeah. Yeah. Especially with young links, right? with with young parawans they
30:06don’t know like I always say the these kid they they don’t know life not how to
30:12call call a Fortune 500 executive or stuff like that like what do they know about life nothing right so you need to
30:19be there for them you need to I learned very early on because I was a supreo
30:25jerko in my first tenure that I I need to learn how to develop empathy
30:33and and and lead lead with with empathy. I’ I’ve since learned this is called like servant leadership. I just call it
30:40like leading with empathy, right? And then this this kid that just
30:45joined and he’s like two weeks into his tenure, he’s equally important to the to
30:52the senior guys. They don’t have the same goals. They don’t have the same skill set. They don’t have the same
30:58anything. But he is important and he needs to be make sure how do we make him
31:04successful as well as everyone else and this is where today’s CRO’s and maybe
31:10that’s the answer to why the average tenure of a CRO is 12 to 18 months because they don’t work with a team they
31:15come in they first they do is revops okay fine um then process is a systems
31:23okay but then we forget it’s all about people indeed it always was So
31:29yeah, may maybe that’s the reason why why that’s the average tenure.
31:34I don’t know. Yeah, that’s I’m sure that’s a part of it for sure. And and the good rev ops
31:41people understand the people aspect of the role as well and how important that
31:46is, especially when you look at comp plans and quotas and getting those structured the right way, right? It’s
31:52got to be attainable but motivational. And it’s that whole balancing effect that you have to you have to be able to
31:58put yourself in the shoes of those reps and have that empathy if you’re going to be successful even at a RevOps perspective for a CRO.
Advice for Young Sales Reps: Focus on Skill Set and the Intangibles
32:06I I I always skate it when I when I talk to sales leaders, especially the VPs is,
32:13oh, like what’s what’s your average like what’s your quota for your account executives? They said let’s say 1
32:20million. All right. Well, out of 10, how how many of them got it? Oh, none of them got it. They’re like at 60 70%. But
32:28we will increase the quota next year to motivate them. And I’m like,
32:35hold on, hold on. I have questions. Number one, what will you do to make
32:42sure that they are better with when it comes to their skill set in order to hit
32:49it? two, they didn’t hit one million. Why do you think they will hit it if you
32:54increase it? But it’s a motivating factor to change. No, it’s it just demotivate. It’s not Yeah. Yeah. You’re going to motivate
33:00them to walk out the door. Stop deluding yourselves. Exactly. Exactly.
33:06Well, I’d I’d love to take that and now transition a little bit to what it is
33:13that you’re doing today. You are now not just a sales leader, you’re a chief uh
33:20investment officer. Is that right? Yeah. Oh, my my own ve very own boutique
33:26company. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more. Yeah. So, uh the origins of that are
33:32really interesting. I I saw a post on LinkedIn on how Magic
33:39Johnson made his billion, right? But he’s one of the few athletes that’s actually got to a billion. So his total
33:46earnings during his playing days, including, you know, sponsorship deals and advertising was between 40 and $50
33:52million, right? Still huge amount of money, but nothing spectacular, right?
33:58But then when you break it down, he owns Starbucks, Burger Kings, all of these
34:03boring businesses. So, I go to a like a um dinner with a good buddy of mine from
34:10Germany from from from Munich and I’ve I’ve known him 25 26
34:17years and he’s he’s an engineer uh so not not a sales guy uh engineer project
34:23management worked for some of the largest Silicon Valley companies work for ASUS and so on and I I tell him the
34:28story he says well I have a buddy who who’s a CEO of 100 companies very boring
34:36in Munich. And I’m like, what did you just say to me?
34:43Yeah, he Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we kind of get into Okay. So, but let’s do a little bit of a research. This was
34:49kind of and end of last year, beginning of this year, right? And then we
34:54discovered that in Germany there’s going to be 750,000 companies up for sale
34:59because of no succession. Subsequently, I learned that there’s going to be about two million in Japan
35:06and over three million in US. Yeah. All of these boring ass main
35:13street companies that I would never work in. They’re not sexy, but they generate a
35:21ton of cash. And the these are companies ran, you
35:27know, by by boomers. people who are, you know, in their late 60s, early 70s and and they they want to
35:34retire, right? Yeah. So we began looking and we kind of
35:42started to analyze okay what would be the best financial criteria that we got
35:48a look what are what is the cash flow what is the ebida and then just began
35:54learning about all of these things expressly I would say how to run due
36:00diligence how to do this how to do that you know all all sort all sorts of different things and me being a bookworm
36:06you know, to two big stacks of M&A books right there. Um, everything from private
36:14equity, due diligence, valuation, lbos, mastering the M&A, the arts of M&A and
36:21and so on and so on, right? So
36:27we began looking and we we talked when we looked at over 350 companies so
36:34far that are within our financial criteria. We talked with I probably know almost
36:40every broker in Germany by now. Uh maybe not but I I I know like probably over
36:46hundred of them. And then we we talked with a fair amount
36:53of owners. We met with one and the one that we met, we decided to go ahead and
36:59and try to buy his his company. Are your goto market teams built for scale or are they stuck in chaos? At
37:07Midame Consulting, we turn high growth challenges into operational wins. From
37:12sales strategy to CRM to process optimization, we help you get it right
37:17so that your organization can grow as your topline grows. Let’s transform
37:22today’s change into tomorrow’s success. Visit midgame consulting.com. That’s midgame consulting.com.
37:32Oh, excellent. So, tell me a little bit more. You’ve got some some financial criteria that that
Madaka Investments’ Strategy: Buying “Boring” Businesses and Avoiding Excitement
37:38you’re looking for. Ultimately, what is what is the goal? Is this a cash flow play? Is this a take the cash flow, buy
37:45more and and build from there? All right. Yeah, this is a pure cash cash pure cash flow play. Um nothing
37:54exciting about these companies. Nothing extraordinary. This is your everyday company that you
38:01see when you walk out of your well for for you guys in US when you drive out of
38:07your home because in Europe we we we walk you guys drive.
38:13Uh that’s a little that’s a that’s a little joke. Um but you know your just your
38:19everyday businesses right like your your cash generating businesses that I would never like I I I have my
38:28operator guy this is our front partner he will be running them you know as as a GM as as a CEO
38:36and that that’s it basically right nothing spectacular nothing
38:44look we we at the very beginning we we had a rule that If the product excites
38:49us and we would want to do it, that company is not for us
38:55like we won’t we won’t be chasing it, right? Because most likely we will
39:01try to get it and then we will probably overpay and then
39:07that’s really smart. I love that. And with technology the way that it has been
39:13going, the focus has definitely overindexed on new tech, on AI, right,
39:19on those areas, not necessarily the dry cleaner or, you know, the the places
39:25like that that everybody needs, right? Everybody’s going to continue to go to those places no matter what happens with
39:30AI or at least in the foreseeable future. Um, right? So yeah, there is a a
39:36real value there, but because it’s not an overcrowded space, you probably get some good some good prices on some of
39:42those opportunities. Yeah, the we decided very early on to go to, you know, either dry cleaning or
39:50building maintenance or HVAC or something like that. What we discovered is that the the ones that were were in
39:58our revenue range this private equity just is beginning to gobble them up
40:03and then they are paying even in Germany they’re paying higher multiples so
40:09multiples of IBIDA that we are comfortable walking into so we quickly shifted focus
40:17to to something else right and then the current company I I I don’t want I can
40:23tell you this when we stop recording, but the current company makes about 8 million in revenue between eight and
40:30nine every year. They have like between 11 and 12% IBIDA. So between 800 and
40:37900k EBIDA and we got it for 2.8 uh multiple.
40:44Yeah. So 2 2.4 2.4 million. Yeah. Yeah. That’s solid.
40:50Yeah. Solid. Yeah. And interesting. I love the approach and it’s like when when
40:56everybody’s going in one direction, you try to go the other direction with this and it seems to be doing
41:01when they zig you Zach. That’s right. That’s that that’s always that’s always the case like we we we said all right
41:09there like manufacturing Germany is like pretty big, right? So let’s go after
41:15CNC, right? So, companies that either produce CNC machines or produce parts
41:21for CNC machines or anything CNC, but we discovered that there are several
41:26companies that are gobbling them up and the multiples are high. Okay, then Well, let’s go after wholesalers of,
41:35you know, chemicals like cleaning uh window cleaning, floor, uh, you know,
41:43kitchen detergents, stuff like that, right? like a normal like boring boring
41:49stuff and then we also saw that the multiples were were getting high so okay
41:54no let’s just move on from there and then I think we now found a niche that is um that is still on tap that we
42:03want to get into and that is still kind of on the lower lower end of of of multiple but in the end man when you are
42:12trying to buy a company what we always say like my first question always is tell me how you built
42:19this company. Tell me what this company did for you, your family for for
42:24everyone involved, right? Like talk to me about because they spent like 30 40 years in in in this like this company is
42:30is their life. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we always say like if you don’t want
42:36us, we won’t even change the name of the company. Like we won’t touch it. We just want to come in and continue your
42:42legacy. And usually when when we begin, which is actually what we mean, like we
42:48are not insincere, we want to continue the legacy of of all of these companies.
42:53Um, and then when we say that and we actually mean it, then the the price
43:01negotiation is is much much easier. Yeah. Yeah. There’s
43:09when people put in that much time into growing a company, making it really a
43:14part of who they are, they want to see it continue just as much for themselves as for the people that they’ve brought
43:21in. So, yeah, if you’re willing to do that as opposed to some some other companies, PE firms, etc., they probably
43:28have a playbook that they’re running with and and may not care as much about keeping that legacy going and are
43:34probably more interested in in the IBIDA in 5 years. And you learn that
43:43you learn that people who helped this owner build the company, people are with
43:48him like seven, eight, 10, 15 years and he cares what happens to these
43:55people, right? Now that being said, it’s so much easier to fire people in US than
44:01in Germany. So you in Germany, it’s very difficult to fire people, but that makes it
44:09much in in my opinion, it makes it much easier at least for me because I don’t
44:15want to fire any of the work. Like I don’t want to increase my IBIDA by firing 10% of the workforce just to
44:24increase IBIDA. I want to help them grow. I’ve helped them want to become better at their jobs, whatever their job
Conclusion and How to Connect with Mario
44:31is. And then the entire company will be better off for it. But because of how
44:37private equity works, you know, it’s it’s very easy to view
44:45everyone as a number. And when you look at people as a number, it’s very easy to
44:50detach yourself from from reality. Yeah. and you get away from the culture
44:56that they have built or in the case of the company that you worked with the culture that you had built and and that
45:02is a critical aspect of of all of this. Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah, Mario, this was great. I really
45:08appreciated the conversation. Uh just like the last time we spoke on Game of Funs, the time just flies whenever we’re
45:15having these conversations. Um I want to make sure that people can find you um to learn more about what
45:21you’re doing. How do they do that? Uh two ways. You can if you like liked
45:27uh what whatever I was telling you and you need either a executive sales coach
45:33or a fractional CRO hit me up on LinkedIn. I’m I’m sure Rich you you’ll
45:38provide my my link or just shoot me an email at mario revenuearchchitects.io.
45:44So, you know, uh shoot me up and and you know, if you want to get your company to
45:50100 million, uh come and find me.
45:55That’s right. Yeah. And we will include all of the uh the links in the show notes as well. So, Mario, again, thank
46:02you so much for joining us. Thanks for joining us on the Midgame Mindset. If today’s episode sparked a new idea or
46:07helped shift your perspective, share it with someone who’s ready to grow. Subscribe, leave a review, and keep
46:13playing the game. With the right mindset, the best moves are still ahead. Until next time, keep changing the game.
